Thorsten Overgaard

"You had me at Hello..."
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January 09, 2008 3:52 PM  (go back to main view)
A fairly good advice

I met this girl today at www.modelmayhem.com today, that is, I saw her and hooked up on e-mail.

www.modelmayhem.com is a place for aspiring models and professional models and photographers where they meet up and eventually arrange to shoot pictures professionally (a paid job) or for fun so that both the model and the photographer gets to reherse and get some work done for their portfolio.
I've done some with this girl, Monica Prata:
However, on ModelMayhem, I kind of noticed - by accident - that fairly many of the models wear less and less clothes. By looking at the stats for each picture you can rather easily determine that the more undressed, the more interest there seem to be in a picture.
There's a lot of the "I might be interested in a part in your movie" type of photos:
I mean, how can you judge a model talent by a picture like that?
But even worse. I mean in color and without the dress.
No, I'm not going to show you those fully nude ones. Some of them are truly fantastic and a work of art in every sense, some are a disgrace. Not all people are created to be photographed undressed. Simple as that.
But the numbers speak clearly.
I guess it is in part because aspiring models who want the cameras interest meet photographers off duty who want to ... well, hell. They just want to see naked skin. Maybe even touch.
The don't care about career of the model.
Anyhow, I saw this profile today. 17 years and from the Netherlands. That's kind of thrilling to find out if a a girl 17 year undress from that young age to get interest. Some do, you know.
But I was somehow relieved to see that she didn't even try to undress in any way.
Because she had an intersting expression.
17 years and you got something like that. It's precious and made me think what she could develop it to.
Thing is, undressing is not the way up. It's the way down. Ask any great looking married girl with kids if she regret the nude pictures she did when she was twenty or so.
With the internet pictures like that doesn't fade away as easily as they once did. And especially if you make a career of some kind, they might even haunt you because it becomes even more intersting.
And usually such pictures are not even great because the fool who took them was a horny bastard rather than a photographer.
Anyway.
So I mailed with this girl and told her I liked her stuff and felt I had to advice her, though I really know nothing about how to make it in the model business.
But keep your clothes on and develop your expression and that face. Look in the cool designer magazines and fashion magazines, what they do and how they do it. And aim for doing stuff like that, those of it you truly like and would feel good about doing as a career.
And then contact the biggest model agency in your country. Start there.
Start from the top. Don't work your way up the system.
Something like that was my advice. Which she mailed back and thanked me for, and told me her agent in Tokyo (of all places) had adviced exact the same.
I guess what I'm aiming at was this:
If you start to undress, you will likely never get dressed again. And if you start out with filthy photographers who just can't wait to get close enought to touch. And if you start out with small 'independent' model agencies...
Well, you might end up being very popular with that limited audience.
But if you want to become a model, start at the top as far as egencies goes. Do stuff you like. And start with some agency in your own country (because the chance they have clients and work nearby is bigger than an exotic agency on the other side of planet Earth who's just looking for some exotic foreign look to impress their local clients who anyway want local look).
And keep your clothes on, unless you really want to specialize in being photographed without, keep them on. Being nude can be a career to, but seldom leads to anything but nuditity. And usually ends around the age where football players end their career too.
And then choose photographers to do test shots with in the same manner as you would choose a car dealer if you were looking for a used car.
As said, I don't know much but at least that much I feel I know.
I might throw in this goodie. When I was young and did my first brochure as a designer - I was 18 or so - I asked a photographer to shoot the front page. It was simply a girl with a computer keyborad, full figure, just standing there to illustrate that this company did indata (type in data on computers and deliver it on magnetic tapes which was the high tech at that time).
Anyhow, I get a shot of a girl looking totally stiff, uncomfortable, not really typing, not looking like a competent typist, and actually not what I had thought of it to be.
Truly, I hadn't thought it could be a problem to just stand and look cool.
So we redid it and this time I was there with the photographer and we had choosen the most used and most professional model in town, like no 5 in the country.
Apart being very good looking, especially at the moment when I had to fumble (I was 19 years and she was 25 or so) with her Levis trousers to set them straight ... I'm having a moment here, sorrry ... apart from that - and my hands were shaking too - she said something that will always live with me.
She said: "Who am I?"
She of cause meant; who am I supposed to be, what is my job, who's the audience looking at this...
What is my character so I can get into character.
Okay, so I'm this very reliable typist who type very fast and precise, get things done, doesn't talk to anybody about what I get to type, and I'm fresh and would love to get more stuff to type from the executive directors looking at this brochure. Got it.
See, that is professionalism. And it worked too. That company used that photo for their next three brochures over 12 years even they changed ad agency for each brochrue they did.
She didn't just stood there thinking "I'm so hot," "I'm sexy," "I'm gonna be a star" and "I'm going to be on a cover."
Well, she might have thought that too.
But mainly she was aware she was on job as a model and was supposed to illustrate something for the thing to work. And it did.
I guess that was why she was the top 5 in the country at that time.
Even I never saw her nude.
Gentlemen Takes Polaroids
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Blog Comments (9):
Posted by Thorsten O... on January 22, 2008 2:39 PM
@Rodolfo: True about famous actresses who've worn less dress earlier and made it anyway. When you look at the portfolios at ModelMayhem you see some who start out with very little dress and then find a style closer to what models normally wear and do. Which I think is a good trend because that's where model work is. Then you see some who start out rather normal and goes more and more naked, which is a sure way to high interest, but also a sure route away from modeling. I've seen it with girls close by who had "great talent" as naked (we have a newspaper here with one daily page with a naked girl) being offered action naked shots (porn that is) and then porn movies. I guess it is all a matter of integrity. Some can do the most silly things and move in the direction they set forth. Others just follow a flow that might not be favorable for them self but only serve others interests.

Posted by Rodolfo on January 22, 2008 1:41 PM
I admire your moralistic concern for women though I disagree with your phrase 'If you start to undress, you will likely never get dressed again.' A lot of famous actresses and models have made their start in less than honorable magazines/films and have gone on to better things.
Posted by Chris on January 12, 2008 3:33 PM
i've heard of those modeling sites but i never went to them. interesting. that was actually so nice of you to give her that advice, mate. i totally agree. start at the top of that game ... don't start at the basement level and move up! hope you're well!
Posted by Chris on January 10, 2008 1:23 AM
*promises to read*
Posted by mrLarios on January 09, 2008 4:58 PM
I have an account with model mayhem. you are right about the nudity. it is crazy how much there is on that site!! I live in Las Vegas (Sin City) and that is all there is from Vegas. nudity, nudity, nudity. I stopped using model mayhem. I am starting to build relationships with modeling agencies in town to start doing test shoots... good blog!!
Posted by Monika on January 09, 2008 6:29 AM
Keep my clothes on....got it! lol not an aspiring model by any means...but that advice works well in all fields. ;)
Posted by Rayray on January 08, 2008 11:06 PM
This is great, thanks for posting :)
Posted by Robert Pri... on January 08, 2008 8:21 PM
Great story, I'm going to print it for a friend of mine. She will like it alot.
Posted by Ivan Marca... on January 08, 2008 8:16 PM
modelmayhem, i am there..... i dont even log on tho.. soooooooooooo much spam
id like to see that brochure :)
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Comments
Oct 06, 2008 8:42 PM
cheers for the add, really loving the photography ;>!!
Oct 07, 2008 4:53 AM
Thanks
Oct 06, 2008 7:13 PM
i cannot express with words how talented i think you are. each one of your photos have captivated me.
Oct 07, 2008 4:54 AM
Wow, thanks a lot. I've been drifting on that remark for the last 15 hours or so ;-)
Oct 06, 2008 9:00 AM
I like your page its so awsume
Oct 07, 2008 4:54 AM
Thanks
Wid
Oct 03, 2008 9:53 PM
Thank you so much for the very kind words, Thorsten. Getting that from a working photojournalist is always a real compliment. :) I started shooting in 2005, and the oldest photo in my uber portfolio is just from 2006. Definitely hoping to be even better in years to come! Thanks once again, and cheers from Indonesia!
Oct 07, 2008 4:58 AM
Well, you're simply the most talented guy I've seen in a long time ... or longer. You're basically at a level where the only thing you should aim at developing is the message. What do you want to tell with your pictures. And I hope you don't go the "World Press" way with hopelessness but go for a the message of life, spirit and hope.
Oct 03, 2008 2:53 AM
Yay! I think your efforts are giving results, alot of people is joining in and somehow it seems even more alive now...

Greetings from México!
Oct 07, 2008 4:59 AM
Hope to be of some service. It's a great and unique community.
Oct 02, 2008 8:59 AM
I've been reading you for about a half hour now. Beautiful photos. Your children are dolls.
Cant wait to see more!
Oct 07, 2008 5:00 AM
Thanks. You just inspired me to do another post. When you see three kids in one picture, that's the one for you!
Oct 01, 2008 5:32 AM
hello there :)
thanks for the add!
what's up?
Oct 07, 2008 5:00 AM
It's all up. Yes you can!
Sep 25, 2008 6:50 AM
hi there! i'm gonna miss your work!! hope uber will do something about this shutting it down thing...
Sep 25, 2008 8:29 AM
It's not over yet!

But in any case Chris, Darren and I will be blogging as well at http://aphotocontributor.typepad.co m
Sep 19, 2008 3:07 AM
Hi, I have been watching your photography work for a bit and I really like them because it is rare from a professional photographer to shot real people with real emotions especially from famous people.
Sep 24, 2008 5:57 PM
Thanks a lot
Sep 18, 2008 9:18 AM
Hey Thorsten.
I bought myself a used Leica R4. Now I'm in the R gang too. Part of this is because of your influence. The camera isn't in perfect condition, but it was affortable. I'll run a test roll thourgh it and probably use it for a reportage on Sunday.

Feels nice. Summicron 50/2 looks good and I hope it comes up to expectation. Should be pretty similar to M.

So well, now I am even more a red-dot elitist. But I don't care, I use other cameras too, Leicas are just good. Form a first glance I think that R is largerly underrated.

Ric
Sep 18, 2008 9:27 AM
Hey, that's great. Congratulations.

Chris will be green of envy ;-) and that's his own damn fault ;-)

The R4 is actually a nice camera and a nice size and sound. And it's easy to get one as many were produced and it is said to have a "faulty electronics." (Which mean that some R4 go dead, but I've never had any problems with mine).

You can probably find an inexpensive winder or motor to go with it. Gives an even better hold on it and balance.

The 50mm f/2.0 is reputed to be one of the best 50mm lenses in the world. And still is. I find 50mm a bit dull as I prefer 80mm mostly - but I must admit I'm blown by the quality of the Summicron 50mm f/2 when I use it.
Sep 18, 2008 1:42 PM
Yes, sure. Electronics. A photographer I know, which has anything from Leicaflex to R8..., told me: look my brand new R4 went dead pretty soon. If you buy an R4 now, it most probably has survived. A visual check shows that mine works, a couple of films will tell.

As much as I love M... this R is nice. Leicaflexes are very expensive and in any case, having an electronic SLR with good exposure is pretty nice. Working with flash is easier too.

The R4 is the smallest of the series, this is also why I have chosen it. The only thing I miss is the 1/2000", which would allow me to open my lens more. The camera fits well in the hand.


80mm is nice for reportage, concert photos. I like the 50, but sometimes you can't get near enough or you need the tele-effect.

I pretty much like the 90/2 with its fancy retractable lens-hood. Probably if I find myself using the camera, I'll look for one.

I'll blog about the camera probably!

So when you come to Italy or I go to Denemark, we will have even more material for a chat, hah!

PS: I so much wished Leica would introduce a new digital back: it would keep the R system alive (no, I don't want a full digital R camera). Imagine a full-frame module! Slap it in for some newspaper work and put your slide or b&w film in when you can have more time for your images.
Sep 16, 2008 12:59 AM
Hi Thorsten,

I just downloaded one of your free e-books, 20 Portraits of 2007. Excellent work! Love the images. Are you going to release another one for 2008?

Thanks,
Mathew
Sep 18, 2008 9:28 AM
Glad you liked it. I liked the idea so I might do it again in January 2009 of the 2008 portraits.

I'm also planning to do a 2004-2008 photo book but that's a slightly bigger project. Might be a 2004-2010 book then ;-)
Sep 15, 2008 4:59 PM
Thank u so much for the Comment.

I was totally deep inside your pictures and works, this sort of life without moves, but full of energy.


I look forward that we can have the time to meet/ speak/ work together.

I' m really feeling the energy on your page.

Peace and Light.
Sep 18, 2008 9:30 AM
Well, we might work with something one day. You know I worked with Noelle? (will be blogging about it when she get her site updated)
Sep 12, 2008 8:58 AM
Your uber is really interesting
Sep 18, 2008 9:30 AM
Thanks.
Sep 09, 2008 7:39 AM
I really enjoyed reading your blog!
Sep 09, 2008 9:53 AM
Happy to hear response like that. Thanks!
Aug 25, 2008 3:47 PM
hey,

thanks for the comment. My M8 is MOSTLY a camera for personal work, so no backup unfortunately. I use Canon's for work...the minute either Leica or Mamiya release a digital rangefinder with 16-22mp, I'll ditch my Canon setup....

Anyways, great work. keep me posted.
andy
Sep 09, 2008 9:54 AM
That day will come. Wonde what will happen the day all cameras are 100MP... which qualities photographers will start looking for instead of size
Aug 19, 2008 1:04 PM
Aug 19, 2008 11:47 AM
nice page
Sep 09, 2008 9:52 AM
Thank you, belatedly!
Aug 07, 2008 8:42 PM
xoxo hope all is well!
Aug 06, 2008 5:12 AM
any chance we can see thoose judas priest shots of yours ?
Aug 11, 2008 5:19 PM
Will be doing a Rock'n roll post soon and will make sure to include them...!
Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM
can't wait !
Jul 29, 2008 6:11 AM
Impressive work, nice gallery. I'm new to uber and your blog is great, hopefully I'll add some photos representing my country soon. I like your style as a documentary photographer, very informative and beautiful.
Jul 30, 2008 6:55 AM
Thanks. You're almost a Leica shooter with that FED camera! I kind of envy the place you live, because you can shoot so different stuff.
Sep 01, 2008 3:29 AM
Actually I haven't used the FED camra for a long time. Shooting digital now. It's too expensive for me to work fully with film and there's no proessional places to develope or print. So, I chose digital. Thanks. But the place is indeed interesting for photographing, for living it might be a bit harsh.
Jul 23, 2008 11:54 PM
Thank you so much for sharing! I agree about falling in love with your tools and staying in love with photography. I use new and old school tools. I have nice DSLR's and a point and shoot I carry all the time and old rangefinders, twin lenses - they all have good things I love about them. Sometimes you have to make choices according to situations - when I go on trips - especially overseas, I have to be really efficient and thoughtful. I will check back for you new works. Thanks,

Marilyn
Jul 24, 2008 4:18 PM
Thanks. I hope you will post more on your site.
Jun 12, 2008 1:47 PM
Thanks for your comment, your work is very inspiring.
Jun 12, 2008 2:08 AM
www.myspace.com/sulleemusic
Jun 05, 2008 6:59 AM
are you ready for this, i finally found out what was going on with mike and his younger brother andrew. remember how they never had girlfriends up until this past year, now they are with different girls weekly, well i am the only one who has proof on what happened. they both have been taking enlarge pills from http://www.bolinu.com for many months now, i found 7 empty bottles under mike's bed and he caught me, forced me to promise i would never tell anyone about the pills. well i told dave about them 2 months ago, he ordered 6 bottles from http://www.bolinu.com and now he too is a ladies man overnight. none of these guys talk to me anymore so now i can tell you all about the pills and living proof that they work, they even guarentee your money back 100% if they don't work on you. go now to http://www.bolinu.com
Jun 05, 2008 6:58 AM
are you ready for this, i finally found out what was going on with mike and his younger brother andrew. remember how they never had girlfriends up until this past year, now they are with different girls weekly, well i am the only one who has proof on what happened. they both have been taking enlarge pills from http://www.bolinu.com for many months now, i found 7 empty bottles under mike's bed and he caught me, forced me to promise i would never tell anyone about the pills. well i told dave about them 2 months ago, he ordered 6 bottles from http://www.bolinu.com and now he too is a ladies man overnight. none of these guys talk to me anymore so now i can tell you all about the pills and living proof that they work, they even guarentee your money back 100% if they don't work on you. go now to http://www.bolinu.com
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